what do we think about faith schools?
There’s a lot of stuff about at the moment about faith schools. In particular, about whether they are a good idea, whether they promote a positive self-image for people of minority faiths (which, let’s face it in the UK is people of any faith), or whether they act against integration.
Now, on this divided issue I have to declare an interest. As with more than one person in the world, I haven’t always been an atheist. In fact growing up, I went to two different faith schools - primary and secondary. They were both really nice schools. Not perfect, but the kids were generally well-behaved, the staff were caring, the ethos was sound and the exam results were excellent. In short, these are the faith schools that people want to emulate.
If I ever have children, then I would want send them to a school that was like the schools that I went to. Caring, with a good sense of community, and the opportunity for them to reach their potential. As I’ve always had a positive experience with faith schools, before I realised that I was atheist, I assumed that I would want to send them to a church school.
However, these days I think that it’s a mistake to say that faith schools are particularly good. In general, parents have to jump through several hoops (usually of the church attendance variety) to get in. Which means that they are going to attract the sorts of parents willing to invest quite a bit of time and effort into their children’s education. I’m not sure the faith schools create the nice kids as select for them.
Also, more than I used to, I embrace multiculturalism. Whether or not you think, as I do, that it’s truly amazing to get to live in a diverse and vibrant community, the fact is that here in the UK we do. Better then to expose our children to it early on. No matter how much they try to provide a view of life on the outside, most faith schools have a limited population, not just in terms of belief, but in terms of race. The new Hindu Krishna-Avanti school has all Asian pupils. In the same education authority, I suspect that St John Fisher RC School has almost no Asian pupils, nor the Moriah Jewish Day School.
Where atheists are concerned I think there’s also a problem of children having sheltered ideas about non-faith. Until I was say 14 or so, I didn’t know anybody who wasn’t at least nominally connected with a religion. The idea that some people simply didn’t believe in god was completely alien to me. I still sometimes subconsciously confuse faith and being a good person - I automatically assume that someone who has a strong faith is therefore worthy. When I think about it, I can see the basic error I’m making, but I don’t always think about it.
The problem I see is that there isn’t separation of church and state in England. Given that, I can’t see any likelihood of existing C of E schools losing public funding. The Catholic church and the United Synagogue would undoubtedly also be up in arms if there long established schools were no longer in the state sector. And you definitely shouldn’t be promoting one faith above another (despite the established church) which means that you also have to allow state funded Hindu, Sikh and Muslim schools, and some are in existence.
Overall, I’m not sure that I like faith schools any more, although I still retain a soft spot for my own schools. But I don’t think that they’re going to go away. Maybe it would be better to have a semblance of a national, rather than local, curriculum in RE and ensure that all faith positions, and none, are taught in our schools.
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9 Responses to “what do we think about faith schools?”
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Ah, great to see this covered. I’ve been planning a post on faith schools for a while, so I’ll definitely be linking to you when it happens.
bringing your children up to be judgmental, homophobic, sexually repressed with an inclination to ignore empirical evidence is not good parenting.
ever. at all. not even slightly.
that’s what i reckon of faith schools anyway.
i had a completely different experience going to catholic school in the U.S. the children there were some of the most cruel i can imagine. i wanted out since 3rd grade, but i didn’t get out until 8th, when the children in public school came in to their own as to cruelty. the teachers were a nasty bunch as well. i don’t remember one good one after 1st grade. sister judith. she was a lovely, sweet woman. i had one nun in 4th grade who constantly told us we were brazen brats. all of us. she peppered her evaluation of us with vile as well. there were lay teachers also, some weren’t bad, but i don’t remember any being good.
diversity was nearly non-existent. there was one filipino girl and one black girl. in the whole school. 1st to 8th grade.
i agree completely with drummer.
your evaluation of the character of those with faith is completely off base. give some thought to history, the current jihads, and the behavior you see constantly of those who profess to believe in god, and then proceed to treat his other “children” with contempt and hostility, however subtle, but often overt.
no separation of church and state in england? i find that odd. i heard statistics recently which said that faith was important in only 35% of the population of the U.K., as opposed to 80 something percent here in the states.
People that I know who went to faith schools seem to have turned out alright (including me). Many people that I personally know who have faith are lovely, kind, generous and warm people. But then I don’t like to hang out with wierdos.
Despite the fact that Britain is not particularly religious, in England there is an official church - The Church of England is Anglican/Episcopalian. Bishops sit in the House of Lords and they have a special place in legislation.
I think that the biggest reason that no one attempts to change this situation is that it is just not deemed worth the hassle. I would concur that there are more important things for Parliament to get involved in.
Speaking from an American perspective, I support the right of people to send their kids to faith schools, even though I personally wish such schools would cease to exist. In the USA, such schools generally are not funded by taxes. Naturally, the people who run such schools have tried various means to gain tax support. One such tactic is the “school voucher” movement, which argues that vouchers actually enhance parental freedom and choice by providing parents with the means to afford the same education others can choose for their kids. I don’t agree with this position. I think, instead, that voucher funds should remain in the channels to upgrade and maintain the secular, public education system.
Private schools of any kind, religious or otherwise, should be (and are, in the USA) regulated and monitored by state education offices to ensure that their curriculum, staff, etc., meet at least minimal standards. This is a good thing.
The homeschooling movement has grown in leaps and bounds throughout the USA in the past couple of decades. This is the area that has been most difficult to regulate. This, more than private or religious schools, is where extremists often shield their kids and continue to cloak them in ignorance.
I liked this statement, as it applied to me: The idea that some people simply didn’t believe in god was completely alien to me. I’d heard the term “atheist” as a kid and knew its definition. Nevertheless, I couldn’t conceive what it meant to literally not believe in a god. I knew people who were apathetic about their god-belief, but none that, to my knowledge, really, truly didn’t believe. When one is raised in a tradition of god-belief, the idea that any other options exist simply don’t compute. We are taught that there are no “options” about belief. The only options available are to obey, disobey, or rebel completely.
I spent my first three years of school in a province where, at the time, ALL public schools were religious. There were separate Catholic and Protestant schools (plus I think some Protestant denominations also ran their own schools apart from the regular Protestant system). Although my parents were Protestant, I went to a Catholic school for practical reasons (location and a special program I was in). Later I attended non-religious public schools in another province.
Although I am myself religious, I believe in the separation of church and state and I do not think that public money should go to towards the teaching of a particular religion, nor toward religious schools at all. The state sets up a system of schools which are for all. If they don’t suit you, by all means start your own school with your own money. But don’t insist the rest of us pay for it. This applies to any category of people, not just religion. (There have been proposals to set up a black high school here.)
I think it’s good for children to know that not everyone is like them (in terms of religion, skin colour, ethnicity, language, income, family type, whatever) and to mix with many kinds of people. Personally I’m not a big supporter of the school system but not for religious reasons, rather because I think it promotes conformity, complacency, lack of creativity and curiosity, etc. (I’m a John Taylor Gatto fan). If I had children I would look into “unschooling” them.
As an Anglican myself, I hope the Church of England gets disestablished soon. I don’t know whether establishment has been to the benefit of the state, but I definitely don’t think it is to the benefit of the church to be so intertwined with the state and to have secular officials interfere in the life of the church. Look at the 1928 prayer book, which was approved by the church but Parliament refused it — what on earth did it have to do with Parliament? Most M.P.s were probably not regular communicants in the Church of England anyway! And then you have the prime minister appointing the Archbishop of Canterbury — the head of the Anglican communion, not just of the Church of England! But what is the prime minister to the church? Possibly just an ordinary member like anyone else. Possibly not even that. Tony Blair was just hanging on until he could leave office and become a Catholic. And what if the P.M. is not even nominally C of E? I understand Gordon Brown is Presbyterian. Sorry, this just gets me worked up…
Yes, establishment of the Church of England is as bad for the Anglican Communion as it is for the UK. Probably in 1928, at the very least a significant minority of MPs (if not an outright majority) would have been CofE churchgoers, but that’s beside the point.
If there was an attempt to disestablish the Church of England, then I’m pretty certain there’d be a campaign against it by a major national newspaper - even though most people don’t really care for religion. It’s a cultural thing. Most people describe themselves as Christian but have no real knowledge of Christianity.
“Most people describe themselves as Christian but have no real knowledge of Christianity.” — Yeah, I’m not much of a fan of this mentality (also present in my province where most describe themselves as Catholic even though I a Protestant have probably attended mass more recently than most of them). If you don’t believe then be honest enough to admit it.
Hello everyone, I’m new. Right now I’m writing a couple of pieces which you
may find relevent to the topic, the first piece isn’t, I’ve titled it, “Atheistic, Non-Believing, Secular, Liberal, Left-Wing, Humanists On Quest to Save Christianity
From Itself.” Basically, Christians have been mooching off a God that isn’t and
hasn’t been their God ever since they split away, since Jehovah has limited his
practice to Jews, everything the Christians have claimed such as Jesus being
Gods only begotten Son, Jesus’ resurrection, his ascension actually never took
place when we apply modern science to ferret out these claims. What we know
today, people of that era had no concept of, such as Anatomy and Biology. Regarding his ascension, people never saw anything higher than a mountain,
we, on the otherhand with the help of the Hubble telescope have peered beyond hundreds of billions of light years, in a nutshell I’m afraid inasmuch as
Christians want to believe in his ascension, the bad news is, he’s still enroute
and without a map I’d be surprised if he ever finds the place which also means
all those people who’ve been following him these past 2,000 years aren’t there
either. I tell them don’t be surprised if St. Peter isn’t at the gate, the chances are
Rabbi Goldstein will be there waiting instead. If your a Jew like Jesus, he’ll let you in. If your not a Jew, go find your own place. Those Jewish places in the Catskills-well, heaven is sorta like that.
The second piece is about how Pres. Bush wanted Intelligent Design to be taught alongside Evolutionary science. A third is on I.D. in public education, a
fourth on Pat Robertson’s opinion re: creationism’s rejection in PA